Kiss and Tell Podcast – Become a Master Conversationalist With Ali Natural

March 26, 2013 - 1 hours read

Ali Natural

This time sharing some amazing tips on the Kiss and Tell podcast is master conversationalist Mr Ali Natural.

Ali’s skill set and ability never seizes to amaze me. I have personally experienced him pull off some extraordinary feats as a trainer a wingman and a silver tongued seducer. I could write a book alone with all the stories me and Ali share together out there in the field. Expect more future podcasts with this guy in the pipeline.

Ali continues to work closely with students developing their conversation techniques and public speaking ability. You can find more about Ali and what sort of programs he is running through his website

Topics covered:

  • How to break the habit of having boring conversations
  • How to get her interested in you
  • How to talk to shy girls
  • How to turn things sexual through conversation
  • Using the power of assumption
  • Structures to use
  • Ali Natural’s Kiss and Tell


Johnny:  Hello guys and welcome to another episode of the kiss and tell show. This ones a bit overdue but it’s been crazy, crazy busy over here. Today I’ve got on the show Mr Ali Natural. Now, I can’t tell you enough about Ali natural. Ali is the guy that brought me into the West End. Shared with me his network, brought me into all the clubs. Basically showed me the ropes, got me started in London. Ali, welcome on to the show.

Ali:  Hey, my man. I feel very welcome already. Thank you, thank you for the lovely introduction.

J:  Well what I need to add in there also is you’re one of the lead trainers on the Kezia Noble team. The lead trainer should I say.

A:  The man, the god and the prophet and everything.

J:  But also what were gonna talk about a bit later as well is your new venture of Magnetic Self where you’re helping people become master conversationalists.

A: Yes that’s correct.

J:  But yeah we’ll talk about that later. We talked about putting this show together for some time and we eventually got round to doing it and you said, why don’t I share some ideas to help people that are struggling to become good conversationalists. What sort of ideas have we got in store, Ali?

A:  Well there are way too many to list here, I suppose. But you were talking about this earlier on as well and I got home, still reeling from the shock of you tweeting with your lunch, it was just an unexpected surprise, I’m still in shock, I still can’t believe it, but I guess miracles do happen.

J:  I am a stingy bastard I must admit.

A:  I mean when we paid for the lunch, although it wasn’t that much, I saw the blood drain from your face and everything else it was amazing.

J:  Did you see the cobwebs as I opened up my wallet?

A:  I know, yes that was beautiful. Obviously we are exaggerating here, you are kind of generous to your friends, which is the reason I help you out and I became your wingman at times and everything, I believe you only dedicate time to people who deserve it otherwise you are just wasting something from yourself. And the same principle applies to everything and anything in life, so that’s something I want to talk about as well when it comes to conversations. One thing people say is, all my conversations are very boring and after a while I run out of things to say. How do I become a conversationalist like you, Ali? They say, you come out with some random and interesting stuff, you can be really funny or you can be charming, you can be seductive, or you can be very observant of people. How do you do that? And is that because I have super powers?

J:  What sort of people believe that? Who are these people?

A:  It happens you know. Sometimes you’re lucky stuff and then you act like as if you know what you’re doing. And people are like wow, he really is the shit, but this just happens like a childish abundancy.

J:  No, what you’re saying is true. I get that from a lot of my students as well. So it’s like they get into their interactions, they run out of things to say. So that’s obviously a real common flaw. So guys that are in that situation, they’re going in there, they have this great opener, they get a little bit of a laugh and a giggle and the interaction goes a little bit further, what can they start doing to actually really get deeper into the conversation, really, really make impact?

A:  There are a few things that you can do, like as outer game elements, and a few things that you can do as inner game elements which would propel your game and you as a person forwards. I would like to talk first about the inner game ones. So you remember earlier I was talking about respecting your time and sharing to people who deserve it, it is very important, people, for me that the reason I have such interesting conversations is that I only have such conversation with people who deserve it. So some people translate it as, you don’t put women on a pedestal. You see them as equal, you talk to them for a few minutes if they are people that you would like to talk with and spend time with. Cos I believe time is your most valuable asset, everything else is just secondary in my opinion.

J:  Of course, time is depreciating all the time.

A:  Exactly, yeah. You’re not gonna get it back. So I see people talking to girls who are like horrible human beings, just they look good or seem to have lots of make up on and everything and try to dress themselves up and try to force a conversation. So that’s why I would suggest you only talk to people who really interest you. And throughout my experience I realise that just because they’re hot, doesn’t mean they deserve your time. There are so many girls out there that would meet your criteria, would be your ideal women, if they were hotter. So it takes a bit of effort, when your apart but when you do that you start realising that your game changes.

J:  So what you’re talking about is something I do as well, and it’s filtering, pretty much

A:  I call it respecting yourself, your time, and from that you can come up with lots of terms. There’s filtering, there’s not putting girls on a pedestal, and seeing yourself as the most important element in any conversation cos you are the leader of the conversation. Not necessarily the center of it but the one who manages everything and leads it. That only happens if you respect your time. So I’ve seen guys who spend their time trying to entertain other people, trying to get their approval and while doing that they just waste their time, which is the most valuable resource for every single person. So there are lots of different terms you can call it. So you can call it filtering, you can call it not putting girls on a pedestal, you can call it seeing yourself as the most valuable person, you can call it displaying high value.

J:  So it’s a mindset as well. There’s a lot of inner game stuff you’re talking about here. So yeah, you gotta go in there with the right mindset first of all. You gotta understand the most important thing to yourself is your time because you’re not gonna get that back, so why should I waste my time speaking to someone who I don’t really get anything from. We also call it qualifying.

A: There’s a sense, everything I do is simplifying the game, as we call it between ourselves. It’s all about that. The simpler it is, the more fun it becomes. Then you don’t have to worry about it. Everything becomes so very simple. You start to enjoy yourself and you start to become a natural. This is also part of the conversation we had earlier. Sometimes now, we do stuff we aren’t even alerted to. So people are like, how did you do that? We are like what? That. And we are like wow, how did I even do that, I did that, it was something amazing that just comes natural to you now, that we didn’t know what we were actually doing. And how do we reach that level? We just simplify the game. Like next thing I do is that when I have that mindset then I do and I believe I’ve seen certain different pieces, then all of a sudden my outer game is shaped accordingly, so I start filtering, I start qualifying, I start seeing girls as just human beings, until they prove themselves as something special, then I decide to spend more time to get to know them. So all the outer game material that everyone talks about just comes naturally because all of a sudden you’re doing it naturally without even thinking about it. And now, something I realise that happens as well, you’ll find yourself in this situation. I’ve seen it and I’ve talked about it, I’m just like, yeah, how did I do that?

J:  You have to reverse engineer. I’ve had situations like that. You’ve heard me share the story on the bootcamp with non-verbal opening and building social value and that time where I picked up a girl that seemed, to me, in two minutes I saw her and took her home. I woke up the next morning thinking how the hell did that just happen? At that point you think, what just happened there? You don’t consider all the other elements that rolled out. You’re right, you have to take a step back and reverse engineer every single process that happened. And then you have a system.

A:  Yes, definitely. And the next thing of inner game, kind of jam, shall we call it, which also helps to keep a conversation interesting and keep them falling for as long as you want them to be really. I call it silly names, just trying not to think of a silly name right now, okay, so just to make it sound like something everyone can understand. Only talk about things you are interested in.

J:  Only talk about things that you yourself are interested in.

A:  Exactly. Nothing else. So, I can’t remember the last time I asked a girl what she does for a living. I’m trying to think back.

J:  Okay, so what you’re saying is something I say as well. Like, everyone has auto responders. So I use this example. So you know when everyone meets together at Christmas or some sort of festive holiday party, whatever, right? You see all the old faces, and you go around and you bump into people and they say the same old things. It’s, hey mate, how are you? Are you still doing this? Just the generic question and you have the answer on the tip of your tongue. And you get the next wave of people who say the same old thing, you’ve got the answers, nothing is making impact. And I think, wow, women must get frustrated cos they must never have a good conversation. All they hear is how old are you? Where you from? I hope initially they don’t hear how old are you? Where you from? How are you?

A:  And the next one is, where do you see yourself in five years? Oh I get the joke now, yes.

J:  So what I’m saying is, to everyone listening to this is, it’s understanding what the boring generic conversations are that people have every evening or every day and completely doing the opposite, completely flipping it, right?

A:  Yeah, I guess you get into the habit of doing that. You know, going to that extreme, talking about things that other people would see as vulgar, you know, you can’t be talking about that.

J:  Yeah but we actually are talking about that, that’s what’s happening right now.

A:  Exactly, it’s just beautiful. But the whole point is that people don’t have to be like that. Yeah, we do this cos its part of what we do for a living and everything, but in the simplest terms when I say only talk about things you are interested in. Cos you know why I do this? I do this; so I say there’s this beautiful girl you want to talk to. Why? She’s beautiful. What I do is don’t give any tips to them I just say go and talk to her, so they go and talk to them. Five or ten minutes later they come back. I ask, so what happened? Oh, we talked. I say, so what did you talk about? They say, I asked her name, where she’s from, what she does, why she was there, blah blah blah. So I say, so you asked about ten questions in ten minutes? He’s like, yeah something like that. I say, were they questions that you really wanted to ask? He’s like not really. So why did you ask them? He’s like, that’s what you do, no? I say I don’t. But okay, and then say you have all these answers, what does that tell you about her? And most people will say, well, you know, I know her profile. And I’m like all this information you have now may be useful if you’re trying to employ her, you know, or if you’re trying to find out if she’s a paedophile or not, you know, if you’re trying to hire her as a child minder or what have you. But apart from that you just wasted your ten minutes and you just wasted her ten minutes. And he’s like oh, okay. Cos usually the reason they come back to you is that they ran out of things to say, or literally they ran out of questions to ask. So that’s what it is. So I have nothing against questions, but if you’re gonna ask questions or if you’re gonna talk about something,

J:  You actually have to give a shit about them.

A:  Exactly. So when I go up to a girl, for this reason most my conversations I don’t say at all, like most times I remember, two same openers I used on two different girls in the last year or so. I don’t even use the same openers in the same night sometimes. Like last year or so, I never used the same opener twice.

J:  So what is that for people listening then? That’s gonna interest people. I don’t think about this. My opener is hey, how are you? That’s my opener. I just simplify it, but that concept you have there that you never use the same opener, what sort of ideas are you implementing?

A:  Well you know if I’m going up to a girl, it’s cos I’m interested in her. And what interests me is different from girl to girl, right? And depending on the day and the weather and how I feel and what have you. So I just talk about that and funnily enough, that results in me not using the same opener twice. But when my students ask me about openers I just give them an opener I used, you know, ages back and I field test them and everything like that. Cos everyone seems to be really concerned about having some line and some structure so you just do that cos it’s part of your job. But to summarise what I’m saying, is only talk about things you are interested in cos if you do that you will become interested in what you are talking about, so you will be passionate, you will come up with lots of crazy stuff and you will really listen and she will be interested as well. Cos we are not just the sum of what we do or where we are form, we are much more than that. We are every person we have met and lots of crazy stories for them and everything, you know, they just want to meet someone who will open that side of them for you. For instance, like now you are seeing a girl, from the outside might look like very rich, very beautiful or bitchy brat but you got to know her and she’s a totally awesome person, like has an interesting sense of humour and  really interesting side of life and everything, that side she shows you. And then she told you like why that side she has never shown anyone else. It’s the same for me like when we go up to people, which is the reason I think we become trainers, we enable these girls, these women to display that side of them that they really wanna display.

J:  Interesting.  So let’s talk about that as well. So guys might argue it’s easy to talk to girls in situations, but how do I talk to a shy girl? What if a girl is really closed, how does a guy end up having a conversation, how does he get under her skin, under that mask.

A:  This is the thing. That shy girl is not always shy. That hyperactive girl, that extrovert girl is not always extrovert, right? No one is just one type. People assume that I am a ridiculous extrovert, I love public attention, yeah I kinda do, but it’s not all me. Sometimes I’m a ridiculous introvert, sometimes I don’t even talk, and you, Johnny, are like, really Ali? You don’t talk? Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I don’t. Same for girls. She’s not necessarily shy, you just haven’t found any sort of topic that she’s interested in or she hasn’t seen you passionate about anything. Because you’re only interested in asking stupid questions that you have no interest in she’s giving you those answers. In my opinion, unless she has ridiculous social anxieties that cripple her, there’s no shy or there’s no this or that kind of a girl, they’re all the same, you just haven’t created an interesting enough conversation for her. Everyone will assume that Hadassa, Kezia’s sister, is a very shy girl. From experience, when she starts talking, when you find a subject that she’s interested in, she does not shut up.

J:  It is like you’ve got the key and they’re the ignition and you’re trying to find the ignition and trying to get the key in. Once you’ve found it, you turn the key and turn the engine on. It keeps going and going and going, keeps giving you more information. It’s literally finding that ignition barrel.

A:  Yeah, I mean my problem has always been I cannot shut the girls up, they just talk too much, they just open themselves too much, they give me so much information and I just wanna say please, please can you just keep quiet, can we just enjoy the silence for about 5 minutes? That’s always been my problem. People say, how do you do that? It’s like, it’s not cos I have a super power, its cos I really listen. And I only talk about stuff I’m interested in, I respect my time and their time, and everything else just falls from that, you know. So for instance, with Hadassa I only talk about mutual interests. I’m interested in the fictions that she reads, anime, and Japanese culture and her love for 1920’s 30’s and anything old really, and ancient and retro and vintage or whatever. I like that kind of stuff, right? So when I talk to her we mostly talk about that. Then we, you know, crack jokes at your expense, Johnny. You know, it’s beautiful, we bitch about you. And then we talk about Kezia, this and that, and then I never really felt that she was shy, we always had that interesting thing going on. It’s just like there’s a turning, having no agenda when you go out with someone, you know. It’s like you’re not trying to get into anyone’s pants, you’re just trying to have a good conversation and everything else flows there you know.

J:  That’s fair enough. But I mean, you know, okay we got a good conversation, we got a hook, we’re genuinely talking about stuff that were interested in, were listening to her for more things to say, to move on to one subject to the other but we know there’s only so long you can play that game for. I like to turn things sexual pretty much the second sentence I say. Cos I know the theory is, if you don’t show your intent, you’re just gonna be that friendly guy. You can be a master conversationalist, you still gotta get it sexual, right? So my way is maybe different to yours. What ways do you find the sexual vibe in?

A:  Sometimes people say, if I do everything you do then I become a gay best friend. People that know me know that I’ve only been friend-zoned once since I started learning game and practicing this in the last five years. I shared this with you, right? It was really funny. It’ll come to it later I guess. But the thing is the reason I was saying you respect your time, you respect her time, and then you’re only talking about stuff you are interested in.

J:  I know where this is going, so obviously what you’re interested in, is getting in her pants.

A:  Exactly, it could be that, it could be that. Remember, lately you see me telling girls like, look. I’m not really interested, you’re a really lovely girl and everything, why don’t you talk to my friend over there. Or you come to my birthday recently, my 30th birthday, there were like 10 or twenty girls. They were all single, half of them tried it on me maybe, at one point or another. And first they meet me and say this or that, and I say sorry, you’re just my friend. I’m friends with girls now cos I’m not interested in that now, you know. So I refer to them as my friend or whatever. So that’s the same mentality. So I’m talking to someone and if I am single then and I’m interested in her sexually then I express that. It wouldn’t be ambiguous, she would know it. I would tell her that.

J:  You would go direct? Or how would you, for the guys listening, how would you show that?

A:  Okay so we are coming to the outer game stuff. So if you’re talking about escalating, not necessarily sexual or whatever, because I believe in escalation means something getting more intense, step by step, that’s what you gotta do if you wanna get any sort of deal. Whether it’s a business deal, or talking to your sister, brother, you wanna close the deal, or whatever, or you’re talking to a girl to get her number or kiss her or whatever it is you wanna achieve, if you just stay in the same place and repeat yourself and the other person does the same thing you don’t really drive the conversation somewhere. That conversation dies out. It becomes really boring. So when it comes to sexual escalation or whatever you got to do stuff like that. For instance, do I say, let’s go have sex? I’ve done it a few times but I believe breaking things down into smaller chunks, I enjoy them more. I’ve been out at one point, you and me, at this VIP club in Leicester Square. We were talking to these girls, and I was really interested in her tattoos, and I got my finger and started like gliding along her lower neck to lower back, and she was like, woah what the fuck? And I was like, look I’m really interested in your tattoos and your amazing back. Hold on. And I did that, for instance. And when you do stuff like that, you express your interest in a certain part of her or her sexuality, her femininity or whatever, she understands what you’re trying to get, you know, and afterwards I did the same thing with my tongue.

J:  Can we just put the conversation on pause right now. Can you just tell this story? Can you just tell this story please? Cos it’s such a good story.  A:  I can’t even remember why we went there, I guess just to catch up, right? And there was this girl with amazing boobs and you really liked her, you wanted to talk to her and her friend had this amazing hips and arse and amazing back and everything. I wanted to talk to her, so you started talking to the one you were interested in and I came over. Instead of saying hi or anything I put my finger at the start gliding down her spine.

J:  She had a tattoo right down to like the top of her ass.

A:  Yeah she turned around she was like, what the fuck? I was like shh, it’s okay, Daddy’s here, everything is under control.

J:  Daddy is here.

A:  Or something along those lines, I can’t remember what I said, she just turned around and smiled and let me do that. And I was like wow you’re so sexy. I said something like, you look very sexy from behind, I wanna see if your face matches your backside, something like that, very cheeky, whatever, you know. And she kinda seemed to like that and she laughed and she gave me a hug and she told me I was so cute and nice, you know, funny. And I said, hold on, there’s one more thing I need to do, and turned around and I did the same thing with my tongue, licking down all the way from the top of her neck all the way to the top of her ass. And I kinda think that sealed the deal, you know?

J:  I remember, I remember. Okay, this is my side of the story. I look over, I’m talking to the girl, I’m keeping her busy. I look over my shoulder, I see you, mesmerised by her tattoo, you’re running your finger down there, like ooh, ahh, I love your tattoo. I look back. I’m talking to this girl again. I look over my shoulder another time, you’ve got your head locked in 180 degrees. Your tongue is hanging out your mouth like a dog at his dinner time, and you’re just going for it like a bad boy. Your tongue is riding the rollercoaster of her back, and you’re just salivering everywhere.

A:  Yeah, thanks for that.

J:  Personally I think I told the story much better.

A:  Yeah you did, you really did, it was something like that. There have been so many occasions like that. Some other outer game tactics and techniques some people can use.  J:  I just wanna say right now, people think that’s a crazy story, people think you can’t just go and do that, you can’t just go up to a girl and lick her back. People are gonna listen to this and think, no that’s not really my style, I can’t do that, that’s ridiculous. So before you get on to what you’re about to say, what makes you think that’s absolutely fine?

A:  To be honest, I talk about this in one of my talks, a couple of years back now I suppose. There’s something called power of assumption. I.e. if I assume confidence is already there and if I assume whatever I do or whatever I am doing is completely fine, it’s my prerogative, you know. It’s my right to do that. And funnily enough, 99 out of 100 cases, you just get away with it.

J:  It is fine, 99 out of 100 cases it is absolutely fine. It’s fine.

A:  I mean, I’m just thinking, have I got any bad reactions so far? No. I mean, people say I can’t really do that. Yes you can. I’m not normally like this and I don’t do this with everyone. With some people it just happens. Funny enough, like I said its simplifying game. When you let yourself be, and just follow these simple 3 rules of inner game, you will just know what to do and when to do it. We were in Vegas; you, me and lots of American students we had and Kezia was there I guess, and you remember I went up to this amazing brunette everyone was trying to hit on and she was the wife of some owner. I went over to her. This is how I opened her, I said something like you know what, I think you would look very special on your knees. And you know what she said? She didn’t say fuck off you perve or whatever, she said, of course I would.

J:  I remember this girl, at that Chateau club, right?

A:  Yes, she was like Eva Mendes, she was ridiculously beautiful. And the students from the bootcamp, they were listening to this conversation and marvelled. Like what the fuck? What? You know, but like I said I just respect my time and respect her time. Talk about stuff you find interesting. But do I do this to everyone? Of course not. That would be a bit creepy, no?

J:  Yeah, come on. Let’s face it, not everyone is gonna look special on their knees.

A:  Exactly, exactly. You know, stuff like that. I think that sorts out the whole sexual escalation problem.

J:  Yeah, okay. To simplify it, just assume it’s on. Assume whatever you’re doing is absolutely fine, and assume comfort.

A:  Yes.

J:  And also you’re talking about things you’re interested in, and seeing her on her knees is something that’s interesting to you.

A:  Yes.

J:  Absolutely agree.

A:  Abso-fucking-lutely.

J:  Absolutely.

A:  There are lots of other small outer game techniques and strategies and whatever that I teach people cos it’s like part of what I do now. It’s not only for dating but it’s also stuff you can use in your  daily life so you can dominate any social setting that you are in. So that’s what I do right now. So I teach my students to become a master conversationalist and get what they want from any and every conversation. So I’m just thinking, another technique that people can use is called listening. People say, yeah whatever. I think this is very important. We do this quite often but people don’t realise.

J:  Guys don’t listen. I never used to listen to women, what’s the point? You know? What’s the point? But to be honest, this is a serious issue, like, if you’re not listening, then you’re not getting the hooks that they’re giving you, the little snippets of information that can pour on streams of endless conversation, right?

A:  And not only that, but also it’s important for a multitude of reasons. Like one of them you explained right now, but the other one is this; look, when you have a conversation, you want it to be two way, so it’s a conversation. If you are doing most of the talking, asking questions and answering your own questions and whatever you become an entertainer and she becomes a spectator, an audience. And that’s the reason most girls get bored and just say, I have to go to the toilet and what have you. And the guy says, fuck. I talked all this time and didn’t get anywhere. This is because they make the conversation one-sided. The way it works is cos they don’t listen. So let me give you an example. So for instance they ask a girl a question, and she gives him an answer, and then the only thing they’re thinking of is asking the next question or coming up with an interesting line instead of really going with what the girl is saying. For instance, I’ve heard a guy go up to the girl, he says hi, how are you? She says, I’m fine. And then the next question is, where are you from? And it’s like, hold on. You asked me a question so you must be interested in the answer, right? She told me she is fine. ‘Fine’ is the most commonly used lie, that human beings use on a daily basis, the most commonly used lie. Someone gives me ‘I’m fine’, I’m not gonna be like oh okay. My next question is this, I’m like, just fine?

J:  Okay so what you’re saying, what the big important element here is what you say in response to the response makes impact. So if they’re giving you anything, you’ve gotta challenge them, don’t accept it, challenge them on their answer.

A:  Exactly, and the way I say is like do not settle for less than you deserve. Respect yourself and your time and everything and it just comes from there. And if a girl tells you just ‘I’m fine’, ‘I’m good’ or whatever, you gotta be like, really just fine? You’re not amazing? You’re not like exhausted to the limit you’re about to die or so bored there are no words to explain it? Just fine? When I challenge them like that, they give me so much more. And you know what it tells them as well, not just the hooks, fuck that. It tells them that you’re really going to be listening, you are just very different to everyone else. And you did this just from ‘I’m fine’. Something very simple that everyone uses, you know?

J:  Right, right. Cos guys would normally accept that. Oh you’re fine, oh okay cool, so where you from?

A:  And it goes on and on.

J:  You challenge them. Just the fact that you challenge them is enough to make impact, cos guys do not challenge.

A:  Exactly. One = you get lots of hooks. Two – it tells you that you will be listening so the conversation becomes two way, so they get more information, they get more animated and then also they try to engage you more. And also they ask you questions and you make impact and all sorts of reasons. Like, I don’t know if you realised. I think you must have. But when I talk to a girl, every conversation I have becomes 50/50 from the very beginning. From then onwards, she does 70 – 80 per cent of the talking and I do 10 – 20. That’s crazy I know, but that’s how I roll baby.

J:  So how a girl works towards that is the challenge because otherwise you’re the only one doing the work. So you challenge them, they invest more into the conversation. And then it becomes even with the percentage of conversation flow.

A:  Yeah it’s just because it’s your fault you’ve turned them into an audience. Even if they give you something interesting. I’m not interested in the answer, I’m just gonna go to the next question or go to my flash line I remembered from this stupid trainer over there watching me or whatever. So they stop giving you anything when they become an audience. This is entertainment for 5 – 10 minutes then I’m gonna kick his sorry ass out of here and then I’ll get on with my life. So if you don’t want that, if you just want them to be engaged, you listen, you challenge, you make impact and all of  a sudden you have a really beautiful person in your life who is interested in meeting you again, or texting you or whatever, it’s as simple as that.

J:  Do you feel like you have a structure? Like you do this, then you do this, then you do this.

A:  Actually I don’t. I used to, but I don’t anymore. It’s very fluid now. Depending on the situation, and how I feel, I do different stuff now. Sometimes what I do seems to follow a formula, sometimes what I do goes against everything I say. People say you can’t do that but you just did. I say well, it’s cos when you get to my level, you can break all the rules I set up for you anyway. I believe all this formula and structure are just crutches while were learning. If you know how to walk then these crutches are not very useful. But if you’re learning all this stuff of course you have a structure that I give you. Then when you get a bit more advanced you get a bit more structure so you can get a bit ahead. Then after a while, I switch back everything, I teach people my special way of learning and people get as good as me or better than me, sometimes in a month or two. Cos think you have seen some of the junior trainers I train. I think most of the people in our team, I think in one stage or another I have helped in their development of their training.

J:  Most definitely.

A:  Yes, so I have a unique way of teaching which is a bit different to everyone else out there. You’re right. I mean, when people start you gotta give them structure.

J:  Yeah, I mean to anyone listening who’s looking for some sort of structure, a good one to follow is; open, you open her, it doesn’t really have to be some crazy line, remember it’s just a vehicle to get you into the set; use an assumption, use an assumption to withdraw information. It’s going against a little bit what you said Ali, but I prefer to use assumptions rather than questions because they become less interrogational, you know, a bit softer. An assumption will give you a hook. Challenge them on the hook to withdraw information, and close.

A:  Yeah I mean basically you could just do that. I mean the structure I teach is something like; open, transition, you build comfort, you escalate, and then you close. So basically, like you did but the only difference would be, in the middle there’s a big chunk off. Building rapport, building qualifications.

J:  Yeah, sure, sure. You gotta consider lacing that all together.

A:  Yeah that’s just it, basically that’s it. That’s what I teach. People say, oh great, that’s it. Now I can go do it. People listen to the information, write them down, speak it out loud and that’s done. They can go do it, they don’t need it. I believe trainers are there for three specific reasons. One; to cut down the learning curve at an incredible rate. It took me a year to figure out what my game should be and the optimum of running game. It took me a year of every single day and it took me roughly 2,000 times before I got my first number. Two; a trainer will always push you, challenge you in a constructive way and when you fall he will pick you up and give you the feedback and advice and make sure you reach your goal. You know, it’s valuable. Three; that trainer will make sure you don’t lose your focus. We all know when guys come to us they got some stupid ideas what they wanna achieve. One thing I always see is, I wanna be able to make any women mine, in any situation, anywhere, any time. It’s one reason people give one target people to set for themselves so they can fail miserably after a few times and they can give up and say, well you know what? I tried. They go, I’m not good enough, it can’t be done, but I tried it though so no one can blame me. A trainer would make you look at this realistically and make you achieve the goals that can really be achieved. And so you have no excuse to not do anything about it. For those three reasons, trainers are amazing. If you’re one of those guys who just goes fail, fail, fail then learn it on your own, never give up, then you don’t need us. In my experience we’re talking about maybe just 1% of the population. For the rest of them, I ask this question all the fucking time. The question is this, it’s very important. Can you bear the cost of not doing the right thing? People always talk about, you know, the training may be expensive or this and that. I always say this, what about the cost of not doing the right thing? You may be wasting years. You know, money for going out, paying for entry fees, train and this and that. And the time and time after again you lose out on the ideal woman, she goes and becomes someone else’s. They’re all the cost of doing the wrong thing and not going for what you really need to go for, which is developing yourself and improving yourself.

J:  I’m still with you on that.

A:  Okay, my sister’s dog is with me now.

J:  You have a dog with you. We have a dog in the podcast, this is a first.

A:  Man you know what? I’m telling you this, this dog is a player. A player on four feet. He’s so cool. He’s like a mixture of American Staff and a Pitbull, right? He puts his chest out and he walks with a swagger. It is so funny to watch, he just like knows bad boys attract girls so he puts his bad boy face on when he sees a girl. When it’s a guy or someone he doesn’t really like he puts that silly looking American Staff face on and just can’t be bothered.

J:  Dog game.

A:  He is a player and a half, I’m telling you this much.

J:  Oh god. Let’s talk about this venture you got going on, Magnetic Self. Let’s talk about this.

A:  Oh yeah. Well as I said, dating is just one part of what I do. I don’t believe it’s everything guys should be focusing on, so I started this company called Magnetic Self. And it’s And so we run courses on becoming a master conversationalist and also becoming a compelling and inspiring leader and public speaker. Cos that’s my passion, I love helping people out and I’m really talented in helping people to love their own words and everything. So this is what I started doing. And so I run classes and also I do private tuition.

J:  Okay and how does that work? How are the classes structured? The tuition, how does that work?

A:  I mean, classes it depends on what course we’re talking about. If were talking about conversation mastery, there are four parts to it, so I do each one, I do two days and eight hours each day. So it’s a weekend course. No matter what your level is you come to the course and at the end of it you become a very effective conversationalist. So we divide the day in to two parts, each day, and in the first day we cover these limiting beliefs and inner game issues and also some other techniques to improve your belief sets and overcoming your anxieties. And then we talk about respect your time and yourself and only talk about stuff you’re interested about, and others we talk about inner game, so we talk about that and make sure everyone understands it. And it’s very hands on, quite a lot of practice, I don’t believe in teaching people structures and giving them hundreds of pages of documents that they’re not going to read or follow. It’s very simple, very straightforward stuff you can use in your daily life straight after the course without any difficulty. And on the second day we train outer game stuff and then also stuff that they’re interested in like specific subjects, and we lastly cover how to deal with difficult situations and conflict. And there will be lots of group stuff and individual work. I keep the class very small – 46 people – so everyone gets lots of individual time. There won’t be anywhere to hide for anyone. So when they come they’re really going to get to work, and they’re really going to sweat it. And I can support everyone and everything, it’s almost like one to one work with me with the help of three or four other participants that people can stay in touch with.

J: fantastic. And people can get hold of that at

A:  Yeah.

J:  Fantastic. I’ll put a link obviously on the website when this goes out. Now last but not least, mate, this is the Kiss and Tell Podcast, so I’m gonna have to ask for a cheeky kiss and tell from you, Ali.

A:  Okay.

J:  So we wanna hear one of your most favourable kiss and tells, or one of your most recent. What have you got in the bag for us tonight Ali?

A:  Oh, well I have a girlfriend now, I don’t kiss and tell but I can tell people how I met this girlfriend.

J:  Absolutely.

A:  It’s a very funny story. It was just, I think off the end of September I think it was one of those very rare summer days it was really beautiful outside I was in my shorts and I was doing to do a bit of shopping, I was so thirsty.

J:  Wait so you were in your shorts, doing some shopping?

A:  Yeah, can you imagine?

J:  Sorry I’m just treasuring that image right now, your Ali shorts, okay moving on.

A:  I think I stopped the traffic once or twice with my legs, they were that sexy, you know. So I was walking towards Sainsbury’s cos I was so thirsty and this beautiful blonde girl comes out of Sainsbury’s with her sandwich and I think a drink. So I looked over and she looked at me she walked past and I stood there, I was like I’m so thirsty, I got all this baggage in my hands, but then I was like, you know what? She’s so beautiful, I have to go and say hi. So I turned around, ran after her, and I stopped her right when she bit her sandwich. She had this big chunk of sandwich in her mouth and a water and I stopped the girl. She could not decide whether to chew on it or talk to me. It was so funny, I started laughing, she laughed and almost choked on it, it was crazy. She was really bitchy about it, but after about 5 minutes of talking I said look lets go for a drink. She said, no. I said, no don’t worry about it, it’s just a drink. If I don’t like you, you don’t like me, that’s it. That was 14 months ago.

J:  Wow. And this all happened because you nearly killed her on the side of the road, choking on a BLT.

A:  Yeah I guess, I can’t even remember it was so long ago. But the funny thing is, I was walking into a supermarket, she was coming out of it, and from the way she tells it, it’s like Prince Charming came down on a white horse and everything and she was swept off her feet. And it’s just something simple, I followed me heart and made it happen, thanks to game. If this was 5 years ago, she would have looked at me, I would have looked at her, I would have walked into the supermarket, got my water, come out and say, I should have gone back, maybe I would have had a chance, would have thought about it, would have kicked myself in the balls about it for the next two or three days. And then the next girl comes along and I would feel the same, the same, the same.

J:  Yeah I used to have the same feeling, walking past every girl, acting like a coward. Why am I not doing anything? But like you say, you invested in yourself, you took on board the skills and ability to go out and get and do what you want. And that’s just another beautiful story you’ve just shared with us there is a good example of what you can do. Kill people.

A:  Beautiful, so beautiful, I love it. Johnny, I think I got to go and eat.

J:  Ah, is that what it was? The idea of a sandwich in your head? You thought, actually, I could do

with one of them. What are you talking about you gotta go eat, we just did eat earlier on in the day.

A:  I’m growing. Not older, but sideways. So I got to look after myself. It’s very important.

J:  Okay, mate, well thanks a lot for coming on and sharing some insights and some fabulous stories.

A:  Any time, any time.

J: Yeah, and we’ll speak to you again soon.

A:  Sure, hopefully soon.

J:  Alright, mate, take care.


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